Hi Guys,
The Background :-
My last project, a low mileage W220 S Class which was wrecked by several local garages blowing up many modules with a power probe in an attempt to fix what turned out to be a faulty TCU :biglaugh:
I bought that Car around 3 years ago in a state of disassembly, just because someone in another local Garage said I'd never get it going 😉
It was running and MOT'd within 3 months despite having been stood in a Barn for 3 years and various bits were stripped out and just chucked in the Boot etc.
I then drove it around for a month or 2 and fell in love with it, so then decided to return it to concourse, I started off by stripping everything underneath and Undersealing (Schutzing) it, Waxoyling the cavities, etc and then time to start on the Bodywork. A little knock / scratch / scab here and there from standing in the Barn
I've also incorporated stuff like Android Multimedia, Facelift Lamps, Custom Exhaust and Mild Tune, Head Rest Screens with connection to Android, Full 4G Internet USB Charging Sockets etc etc.
It turned into almost a ground up restoration is now almost complete, should be totally finished after my 3 week Xmas Shutdown. and I'm already looking for the next project 😁
I currently have a V6 SLK in my Workshops, for Auto Box and ESP Problem, and after sorting the Gearbox and taking it for a test drive I thought hell, this is no "Hairdressers Convertible" >
Me want one to add to my MB Collection, (I currently own 3 roadworthy MB Cars) 😁
I found and put deposits on 2 Cars this week only to have my deposits returned by unscrupulous sellers because obviously they had had better offers.
These Cars were a fair way away from the remote area i live in, and they had both agreed to hold them for 2 weeks until I could get to see / buy / collect.
I'll have my SLK before long though, trying to do a deal on 1 of 2 possibles atm
So, I got a load of work done today and had some time to play, hence out came the "Old" 2012 SDS and in came the R170 that I'm still waiting on a Yaw Sensor from MB Dealers.
I think it would be fair to say any of us who know Mercedes Cars will agree, by using a V6 Car as a base, dropping in a V8 from a mechanical perspective will be an absolute doddle using standard MB Parts ........................
Problems will arise when it comes to the Electronics !!
As others who have trodden this path have found, specifically with getting all the Electronics to talk to each other over CAN Bus, and also the Car builder needs to understand how the Immobilizer System works, and also the ramifications of the fact that the R170 uses DAS 2 Drive Authorisation (Mechanical Key Blade), and V8's such as W220 use DAS 3 (Infra Red Key / EIS).
I decided to look at compatibility with Electronics, Version Codings etc.
Here is my findings :-
Use the ECU from the V6 Car, now all Immo (DAS) issues are removed from the equation as well as things like the CAN Comms between ME and Instrument Cluster, ESP ABS TCU etc etc, because this V6 ECU is already matched to the Cars other Electronics !!
WHAT !! I hear you cry, but the V8 has 2 extra Injectors and Coils and being a 5.0 liter it will need different fuelling and timing etc that won't work !!
Oh yes it will, MB thoughtfully included other Engine Variants in the ECU's Programming, so all one has to do is use SDS to change the ECU Version Coding to M113 E50 🤓 EDIT :_ It isn't quite that simple see my findings in post #3, but still looking very do able !!
Transmission Control Unit Coding is a little harder, it isn't spelled out in plain English, when replacing these one needs a (not identical) but compatible part number TCU and copy the Coding from old TCU to replacement so yeah, one way or another Trans is no issue :|
I do have a sneaky feeling that by using the TCU that is on the V6 Car, (assuming one is keeping V6 Diff), then it's shift timing will be pretty close if not the same, and then Diff Ratios and Trans Gear Implausible issues will not be a problem.
I'm not certain if V6 and V8 Trannys have the same ratio Gearset, and I haven't checked the Diff Ratios either, will need to compare part numbers on WIS EPC, but none of this is an issue, by using the correct combination of parts and a little playing with Version Codings I am 101% certain that it will work 😁
If it turned into an issue I personally would fit a V6 Tranny Gearset into the V8 Trans, because that maybe has extra Clutches in it's packs to take the extra torque, or if one wishes to use the V8 TCU with V8 Trans and V8 Diff, then that should not create conflict either !!
I think for a Road Car the Diff from the V8 Car would be the one to use, again though there are a load of Codings that can be set in the ME ECU to alter Ratios and Tyre Sizes, and I believe that also applies to the TCU Coding from my experience with the S Class TCU. I expect I could get that info from MB as the TCU is a numerical Coding rather than Verbal on SDS Screen so I'd just need to know what number represents what (decode it) as it were
Auto Transmissions used to be my Trade before I sold up in SE England and semi retired to NW Scotland.
ABS ESP and BAS require no version Coding, so although they Communicate to ME and probably TCU via CAN Bus they can be considered "Stand Alone" and therefore need no messing with.
Below are a load of pics from this afternoons session on SDS
I'll be back soon with some more info when I've Compared the Wiring Plugs between a V8 ME 2.8 and the R170 V6 ME 2.8, my fingers are crossed right now 😁
Cheers Dave
Piccies :-
The Background :-
My last project, a low mileage W220 S Class which was wrecked by several local garages blowing up many modules with a power probe in an attempt to fix what turned out to be a faulty TCU :biglaugh:
I bought that Car around 3 years ago in a state of disassembly, just because someone in another local Garage said I'd never get it going 😉
It was running and MOT'd within 3 months despite having been stood in a Barn for 3 years and various bits were stripped out and just chucked in the Boot etc.
I then drove it around for a month or 2 and fell in love with it, so then decided to return it to concourse, I started off by stripping everything underneath and Undersealing (Schutzing) it, Waxoyling the cavities, etc and then time to start on the Bodywork. A little knock / scratch / scab here and there from standing in the Barn
I've also incorporated stuff like Android Multimedia, Facelift Lamps, Custom Exhaust and Mild Tune, Head Rest Screens with connection to Android, Full 4G Internet USB Charging Sockets etc etc.
It turned into almost a ground up restoration is now almost complete, should be totally finished after my 3 week Xmas Shutdown. and I'm already looking for the next project 😁
I currently have a V6 SLK in my Workshops, for Auto Box and ESP Problem, and after sorting the Gearbox and taking it for a test drive I thought hell, this is no "Hairdressers Convertible" >
Me want one to add to my MB Collection, (I currently own 3 roadworthy MB Cars) 😁
I found and put deposits on 2 Cars this week only to have my deposits returned by unscrupulous sellers because obviously they had had better offers.
These Cars were a fair way away from the remote area i live in, and they had both agreed to hold them for 2 weeks until I could get to see / buy / collect.
I'll have my SLK before long though, trying to do a deal on 1 of 2 possibles atm
So, I got a load of work done today and had some time to play, hence out came the "Old" 2012 SDS and in came the R170 that I'm still waiting on a Yaw Sensor from MB Dealers.
I think it would be fair to say any of us who know Mercedes Cars will agree, by using a V6 Car as a base, dropping in a V8 from a mechanical perspective will be an absolute doddle using standard MB Parts ........................
Problems will arise when it comes to the Electronics !!
As others who have trodden this path have found, specifically with getting all the Electronics to talk to each other over CAN Bus, and also the Car builder needs to understand how the Immobilizer System works, and also the ramifications of the fact that the R170 uses DAS 2 Drive Authorisation (Mechanical Key Blade), and V8's such as W220 use DAS 3 (Infra Red Key / EIS).
I decided to look at compatibility with Electronics, Version Codings etc.
Here is my findings :-
Use the ECU from the V6 Car, now all Immo (DAS) issues are removed from the equation as well as things like the CAN Comms between ME and Instrument Cluster, ESP ABS TCU etc etc, because this V6 ECU is already matched to the Cars other Electronics !!
WHAT !! I hear you cry, but the V8 has 2 extra Injectors and Coils and being a 5.0 liter it will need different fuelling and timing etc that won't work !!
Oh yes it will, MB thoughtfully included other Engine Variants in the ECU's Programming, so all one has to do is use SDS to change the ECU Version Coding to M113 E50 🤓 EDIT :_ It isn't quite that simple see my findings in post #3, but still looking very do able !!
Transmission Control Unit Coding is a little harder, it isn't spelled out in plain English, when replacing these one needs a (not identical) but compatible part number TCU and copy the Coding from old TCU to replacement so yeah, one way or another Trans is no issue :|
I do have a sneaky feeling that by using the TCU that is on the V6 Car, (assuming one is keeping V6 Diff), then it's shift timing will be pretty close if not the same, and then Diff Ratios and Trans Gear Implausible issues will not be a problem.
I'm not certain if V6 and V8 Trannys have the same ratio Gearset, and I haven't checked the Diff Ratios either, will need to compare part numbers on WIS EPC, but none of this is an issue, by using the correct combination of parts and a little playing with Version Codings I am 101% certain that it will work 😁
If it turned into an issue I personally would fit a V6 Tranny Gearset into the V8 Trans, because that maybe has extra Clutches in it's packs to take the extra torque, or if one wishes to use the V8 TCU with V8 Trans and V8 Diff, then that should not create conflict either !!
I think for a Road Car the Diff from the V8 Car would be the one to use, again though there are a load of Codings that can be set in the ME ECU to alter Ratios and Tyre Sizes, and I believe that also applies to the TCU Coding from my experience with the S Class TCU. I expect I could get that info from MB as the TCU is a numerical Coding rather than Verbal on SDS Screen so I'd just need to know what number represents what (decode it) as it were
Auto Transmissions used to be my Trade before I sold up in SE England and semi retired to NW Scotland.
ABS ESP and BAS require no version Coding, so although they Communicate to ME and probably TCU via CAN Bus they can be considered "Stand Alone" and therefore need no messing with.
Below are a load of pics from this afternoons session on SDS
I'll be back soon with some more info when I've Compared the Wiring Plugs between a V8 ME 2.8 and the R170 V6 ME 2.8, my fingers are crossed right now 😁
Cheers Dave
Piccies :-
